Push Poll
Recently, I answered the phone one evening (right around dinnertime when most normal families sit down to eat.) The caller was a political pollster who kindly asked if I’d give about 10 minutes of my time to answer a few questions about “politics.” Since I follow such things more closely than most folks, I couldn’t resist taking the poll. During the poll, I was asked about every politician from local to national, along with various Judges from state level to the supreme court. After that came various state constitutional amendments. As the poll went much longer than the 10 minutes promised my mind began to wander a bit (not unusual). I was contemplating the point of this poll when the last question of the poll came up. Such things are usually done by folks with agendas and those can usually be determined by the nature of the questions. The last question of the poll was the giveaway. It was asked: “would I ever support overturning Proposition 2 in Florida or Proposition 8 in California that takes away the rights of couples of alternative lifestyles to marry?” I answered, “Oh…you mean the gay marriage bans? I support them and will continue to do so.” “Oh”, the pollster sighed in a dismayed sort of way. Then I was asked, “so there’s no way you’d reconsider your position on this subject? “No” I answered, “not now, not ever.” Then I asked “By the way, why is it so important to give special rights to small groups of people because of wrong lifestyle choices?” The pollster responded “So do you want to be the one to tell a gay person that they can’t visit their partner in the hospital if they are sick because they are gay?” “No,” I said, “That is the hospital’s job, but I’ll be happy to tell them that they are making a wrong lifestyle choice, and they should reconsider how they are living…and I will never support gay marriage, not while I’m on God’s green earth.” “Thank you” they said and hung up.
If this was an honest poll, and had I softened even slightly in my responses, I would have been reported as someone who favors gay marriage. These people who are pushing this agenda are not honest and have no problem asking “loaded” questions to get the responses they want. How many Bible verses can I now insert here to say how clearly wrong homosexuality is? 1st Timothy 1:10 where homosexuality is labelled right up there with any other lawless act as being sin comes to mind. We can say okay to such people as my pollster and watch as our society degenerates into nothing. Or better yet, we can stir up God’s wrath on us as a nation who had received God’s blessings and turned away from him. By the way, such nations in the past have not faired so well. Daily we are barraged with the “Hollywood” depiction of America which tries to destroy any sort of traditional family in every way possible. The lack of intellectual honesty that these people adhere to just makes me wonder, is this really only about “gay rights” or “women’s liberation” or is it something else, something far more insidious? I believe this really an “anti-Christian” movement whose ultimate goal is to drive us out of our churches? California and Florida voted 70-80 percent against saying okay to gay marriage in an election where more traditional “conservatives” got trounced. Florida and California are not the most traditional regions of the country. Try pushing a “gay right’s agenda through in places like Alabama or Georgia and see how far it goes. Maybe that means that the “Hollywood” version of America is as mythical as the “unicorn” they will have a tougher fight on their hands than they thought.
Don't forget to browse Lessons For Daily Living.
Your Thoughts
13 Comments so far13 Responses to “Push Poll”
By submitting a comment here you grant Christian Monthly Standard a perpetual license to reproduce your words and name/web site in attribution. Inappropriate comments will be removed at our discretion.
Nat G.
March 2, 2009 at 10:03 pm
“By the way, why is it so important to give special rights to small groups of people because of wrong lifestyle choices?â€
Actually, here’s the thing — it’s not special rights they’re looking for. It’s the same rights that heterosexual couples enjoy.
” California and Florida voted 70-80 percent against saying okay to gay marriage”
No. <a href=”http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Marriage_Amendment_(2008)”>Prop 2</a> came in at 62.1% (not that okay to gay marriage was actually on the ballot there). <a href=”http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_8_(2008)”>Prop 8</a> came in at 52.3%.
Just keeping things intellectually honest.
Joel
March 3, 2009 at 3:11 pm
If I go out and kill someone, it is murder. If that person just so happens to be Gay, it is a “hate crime”. If murder is wrong, why is it more wrong to kill a homosexual? Homosexuals have never had the right to marry in the U.S.A. It is not enough that they could go to Canada or Amsterdam or any other W. European Country to do their business. They have to ram their agenda down the throats of 90% of the U.S. population who oppose Gay marriage. We have prospered more so than any nation on earth without homosexual marriage and the people voted on it and defeated gay marriage hands down. Yet the Homosexual Rights activists are doing what they always do and going around the will of the people and taking to the courts that are loaded with liberal activist judges. What will happen when a Church decides not to marry a Gay couple, they will get sued for discrimination. Forcing 90% of the people to accept an abomination being committed by 2% of the people IS granting people a special right.
Nat G.
March 3, 2009 at 3:43 pm
If I go out and kill someone, it is murder. If that person just so happens to be Gay, it is a “hate crimeâ€.
No, not if the person just happens to be gay. The “hate crime” category comes into it if you kill the person because he is gay… or because he is straight… and that act is intended to intimidate others. I’m not saying that I agree with hate crimes laws in all their forms, but it is not as you describe it.
If I may put the concept of “hate crime” in historical context: the action of a lynching was the murder of one black person. The point of a lynching, however, was generally to strike fear in the hearts of all black people. That is why they left the bodies swinging from the trees. And so the question is, is murder-plus-intimidation a greater crime than murder?
Homosexuals have never had the right to marry in the U.S.A.
Homosexual couples have had the right to marry in parts of the USA for about half a decade now, dating to before it was legalized nationwide in Canada. I don’t see why Americans should have to travel elsewhere to obtain the rights that others enjoy.
They have to ram their agenda down the throats of 90% of the U.S. population who oppose Gay marriage.
90% is quite an exaggeration at this point. Here’s a recent poll: http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm
What will happen when a Church decides not to marry a Gay couple, they will get sued for discrimination.
Churches have been allowed to discriminate against who they married in this country for as long as there has been civil marriage in this country. They’ve discriminated on the basis of religion, of race, of the religion’s perception of the marital status, among other things. Yet in all this time, I have yet to hear anyone put forth a case where a church was legally forced to perform a marriage rite for those who they did not wish to marry.
Should we allow all churches to stop all legal marriages of anyone they would not allow to marry in the church?
Joel
March 3, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Should we allow all churches to stop all legal marriages of anyone they would not allow to marry in the church?
Yes we should. Churches answer to the highest power in the land. Just because a marriage is legal according to the government, doesn’t mean it is legal in God’s eyes. Remember that the Constitution states that our rights come from GOD. That is not the people, that is not the government, that is GOD. God says that homosexuality is an abomination. He did not studder, he did not mince words, he even destroyed cities where homosexuality was rampant (Sodom and Gomorrah). If a marriage is unscriptural, a church should not be forced to proceed with an abomination because of “peer pressure”. If you believe the government should force churches to proceed with such acts, that would mean “separation of church and state” is merely a convenience to be thrown out when things don’t go your way. Where I come from, that is called having your cake and eating it too.
By the way, if you are not a member of said Church, not contributing to the needs of the Church, then don’t you think internal decisions of that Church should be left to those who “have skin in the game?” If not then why don’t we let non tax paying Ukrainians vote on our next American president. After all, their opinion matters just as much as a tax paying American citizen, right?
Nat G.
March 3, 2009 at 5:43 pm
I may have phrased that unclearly. The question was not “should any church be forced to run the marriage rite”, but whether “should the state be allowed to marry a couple when there is some church, somewhere, which would choose not to?”. Because if your stance is that gays should not be allowed to acquire civil marriage, because a church may choose not to perform the marriage and thus get sued, then the same logic should be applied to all groups. Catholic couples should not be allowed civil marriage, because the Mormon church would refuse to marry them, and might get sued. Mormon couples should not be allowed civil marriage, because the Catholic church would not perform the ceremony of them and might get sued. You’d end up with no civil marriage at all.
Isn’t it better that we end up with basically the situation we have now, where civil marriage does not create the right to a religious rite in a given church?
Joel
March 3, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Marriage is a ritual that came from God. God specified that it be between a man
and a woman. If the whole issue is over “hospital visitation” then let each
person admitted to a hospital make a list of 5 people that can visit them. This
issue goes way beyond that. It is an attack on the Churches in America and the
people behind it are doing everything they can to drive us out. Whether it is
Gay marriage, God on currency, Prayer in school, the elimination of
homeschooling for Christian families, the elimination of tax breaks for
donations to churches, our way of life is under attack. Whether you realize it
or not, eventually this will affect you!
Nat G.
March 3, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Marriage is a ritual that came from God. Â God specified that it be between a man and a woman.
That is your religious view, and I understand its importance to you. However, we also have a nation designed to let people hold and function under other religious views.
The “civil marriage” is very much incompatible with many religious concepts of marriage anyway. When people hold up the marriage of Adam and Eve as an ideal, I point out that in California… and probably in most other states… Adam and Eve’s marriage would not have been legal.
If the whole issue is over “hospital visitation” then let each person admitted to a hospital make a list of 5 people that can visit them.
That is hardly the whole issue, although it is certainly one that can be important at times. (And the assumption that someone being admitted to the hospital is in a condition to dictate a list removes the right in the most dire of circumstances.)
Whether it is Gay marriage, God on currency, Prayer in school, the elimination of homeschooling for Christian families, the elimination of tax breaks for donations to churches, our way of life is under attack. Â Whether you realize it or not, eventually this will affect you!
I find my way of life much more under attack by those claiming the “traditional conservative” route. But that’s my life. And some of the things you seem to consider your way of life are not very traditional. “In God We Trust” was not placed on our currency until 1957, part of the Cold War embrace of making our government seem like it has God as a special ally.
Joel
March 3, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Nat wrote: Thank you for your respect. I find too much of the conversation in this nation driven by shrill voices on all sides. I’m certainly not expecting to change your mind, and merely insisting loudly will not do much for anyone… but I find that addressing specific factual claims or logic can keep the tone to where conversation may be add, and perhaps all might learn something.
I find the question of whether homosexuality is wrong to be a very separate question from whether same-sex marriage will be legal. Certainly, the lack of same-sex marriage has not prevented homosexual activity from taking place. If the goal of keeping same-sex marriage illegal is to encourage those with homosexual tendencies to enter into mixed-sex marriage for the benefits it offers, that seems a prescription fraught with danger. It is probably not to the best interest of the spouse or any resultant children that a marriage be based on a homosexual going against his/her tendencies, as that would not seem to be a stable basis for a lifelong commitment.
I replied:
I try to treat those I engage in debate with the same way I would want to be
treated. That is what I am told to do by writing and example in the Bible.
There are some who use the bible just to push an agenda. That is not me, nor
the majority of those who post on the CMS. I find those who are shrill in their
arguments to be an insult to those of us who actually try to live according to
the scriptures. I understand that Gay people are god’s creations too and I am
commanded to love my fellow man. I can love somebody as God’s creation, but
believe that what they are doing is wrong. True Christianity is not a religion
of hate, and those who pervert it in such a way are no better than those who
committed the terrorist acts on 9/11. You will find that most of the folks
blogging on the CMS share my views. True Christianity is a religion of peace,
not of hate. Thank you for seeing that in our conversation and feel free to ask
any questions you have about true Christianity to me or on the blog.
Joel
March 4, 2009 at 8:13 am
Catholics still hold to the one man-one woman marriage formula, as do Mormons and Lutherans. When I look at the condition of the nations (european socialist) that are allowing homosexual marriage, I see plenty of reasons why it is a bad thing. Gay marriage erodes the family structure that makes America great. God’s judgement is coming down on europe soon. You will hear about it on the news; it will be called the “summer of rage”. There is a huge feeling of disenfranchisement, when combined with the collapse of the Euro, and it becomes obvious that nations will be redefined in a violent way in the coming years. (yes it will be that bad!)
Nat G.
March 4, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Gay marriage erodes the family structure that makes America great.
Discrimination against groups erodes the beliefs in freedom and equality that make America great.
Joel
March 4, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Who on this site is discriminating against gay people? Â If a homosexual wants to attend our church service, they are welcome. Â The problem with religion is it comes with rules. There’s times when I’d like to go do something sinful but I know that it will get me nowhere good. Â In the old testament, they had sanctuary cities where law breakers could go and live out their lives in peace. Â I would have no problem with such a system here. Â The issue is that the real agenda is to push Gay marriage down the throats of the 80+% of Americans who believe in God and do not want Gay marriage. Â It is no different than Abortion, Feminism, Metrosexuality (feminizing men.) and Atheism. Â It starts with just a few people, then they march, protest, and lobby until the corrupt people in Washington DC (of both parties) stumble into enough money to be bought. Â If that doesn’t work, the 5 liberals on the Supreme kangaroo court will take care of it for us. Â Notice that letting the people vote on it didn’t get the desired outcome so the court system is next. Â
  Just to set the record straight, discrimination is passing judgement or laws restricting the activities of people because of something they have no control over.  (Homosexuality is an act, not a skin color or mental disorder so banning homosexual marriage is NOT discrimination.)  Homosexuals have plenty of places in the world they can go live a married life and not bother us Christians.  This is a Christian nation, born on Christian ideas and Christian morals and values.  While Christians are generally nice quiet people (where I live), there is an undercurrent of anger brewing here.  I can guarantee that the Christian population will fight for their country and morals as they always have… Just ask the the British, Germans, Japanese, Koreans, V.C.s or Muslim terrorists,  Those supporting gay marriage had best be ready to fight for that “right”.  Note, I am not talking about myself.  I am not hostile and have no desire for another American Civil War.  I am just calling it how I see it.
One other thing, is it discrimination for those who get bailed out of bad home loans while responsible people don’t? Â Now that’s real discrimination, now that you mention it.
Nat G.
March 4, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Just to set the record straight, discrimination is passing judgement or laws restricting the activities of people because of something they have no control over.
So if the law said “No Christians allowed”, that would not be discrimination? I cannot agree with that.
Homosexuals have plenty of places in the world they can go live a married life and not bother us Christians.
Really? What places can you name that have gay marriage and don’t have any Christians? And where the are homosexual Christians to go? (Of course they qualify as Christians; one need not be without sin to qualify as Christian.)
Joel
March 5, 2009 at 12:40 am
If such a law was passed, I’D LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.If you read the Bible, God’s
judgment comes down on nations because of sinful laws and apathy among the
people. I have Gay people living on my street. I treat them with the utmost
respect, my issue with Gay marriage is that once it is passed, it is only the
beginning. There will be lawsuits everywhere, there will be gay bathrooms in
restaurants, there will be law saying that if you want to rent a room out of
your house, you must consider a homosexual first. Churches will HAVE to accept
homosexuals into their membership……..etc….etc.
I believe that our main difference is that you define marriage as something you
get from the government. I define marriage as something you get from God.
Actually, I don’t believe that “no christian laws” are discriminatory. The fact
is, if the Romans weren’t killing us, the Catholics were for being heretics.
The Nazis weren’t very nice to us either. Persecution is something that true
Christians have to deal with on a regular basis. There are far more nations
that ban Christianity than ban Homosexuality. I have a good friend who is
currently being detained in China for being a Christian. How many people do you
know that are being detained for being gay?
I still want to thank you for being respectful. We can agree to disagree and be
civil. That is what the Bible teaches and that is what politics in America is
about…good healthy debate.
” I saw on the news today that some person who cant stand that the people voted NO is suing the state of California to get Gay marriage re-installed. Why don’t we just go ahead and get a totalitarian government while were at it.
When they put forth Proposition 8, both the supporters and the opposition knew well in advance that it was going to face this challenge, because of some subtleties of California Constitutional law. Are we supposed to ignore the state constitution?
I am only human and I do wrong every day so I can’t judge homosexuals but I try my best not to do wrong and I believe homosexuality is wrong.”
On that we definitely agree!(Stuff like that is what I fear homosexual marriage can lead to through the court system.)