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	<title>Comments on: Revised Translations &#8211; Warmed Up Leftovers?</title>
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	<description>A Voice of Reason for the 21st Century</description>
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		<title>By: Brent Kercheville</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1493</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Kercheville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1493</guid>
		<description>Wayne- Absolutely. If it is a bad revision, then so be it. But being a revision does not make it a bad translation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne- Absolutely. If it is a bad revision, then so be it. But being a revision does not make it a bad translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1492</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1492</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, the RCC revised the RSV in 2002 (Ignatius Press) and it makes for an excellent Bible, quite similar to ESV but better in several ways. In some places it correctly translates the text, whereas ESV did not (see John 20:23 ESV is abysmal, and NIV is not good either).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly, the RCC revised the RSV in 2002 (Ignatius Press) and it makes for an excellent Bible, quite similar to ESV but better in several ways. In some places it correctly translates the text, whereas ESV did not (see John 20:23 ESV is abysmal, and NIV is not good either).</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1491</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Leman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1491</guid>
		<description>I, for one, am happy to criticize the TNIV or any other Bible version for not sufficiently revising its predecessor when there is a need for it.

The NRSV is far more than a slight literary revision of the RSV. It is a major revision, if we look at the percentages of changes made to the RSV text.

The ESV makes very little change to the RSV text, other than--and this is important for its audience--revising some verses to be more theologically conservative.

The NASB was a major revision of the ASV, as was the RSV.

There is nothing wrong with revisions.

The bigger question is what is the quality of the result.

Thanks for posting on this important issue. No one should dismiss any translation simply because it is a revision of another. But it is totally legitimate to critique (graciously, professionally, positively, of course) any version which needs further revision to measure up to good standards of exegetical accuracy and English literary quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, for one, am happy to criticize the TNIV or any other Bible version for not sufficiently revising its predecessor when there is a need for it.</p>
<p>The NRSV is far more than a slight literary revision of the RSV. It is a major revision, if we look at the percentages of changes made to the RSV text.</p>
<p>The ESV makes very little change to the RSV text, other than&#8211;and this is important for its audience&#8211;revising some verses to be more theologically conservative.</p>
<p>The NASB was a major revision of the ASV, as was the RSV.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with revisions.</p>
<p>The bigger question is what is the quality of the result.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting on this important issue. No one should dismiss any translation simply because it is a revision of another. But it is totally legitimate to critique (graciously, professionally, positively, of course) any version which needs further revision to measure up to good standards of exegetical accuracy and English literary quality.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Zimmerli</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1490</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Zimmerli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 13:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My own opinion of the ESV is that, while a &quot;good&quot; translation, it&#039;s not the great end-all of English translation like it&#039;s strongest supporters seem to think it is. And in fact there are at least a couple and maybe several translations that I think are better, including the TNIV and the NASB. The RSV may have been the best when it was first produced, and it still is quite good, but I think since then a number of &quot;better&quot; translations have appeared.

The ESV&#039;s marketing hyperbole turned me off, I admit, but the translation needs to be evaluated for what it is, not how it&#039;s marketed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own opinion of the ESV is that, while a &#8220;good&#8221; translation, it&#8217;s not the great end-all of English translation like it&#8217;s strongest supporters seem to think it is. And in fact there are at least a couple and maybe several translations that I think are better, including the TNIV and the NASB. The RSV may have been the best when it was first produced, and it still is quite good, but I think since then a number of &#8220;better&#8221; translations have appeared.</p>
<p>The ESV&#8217;s marketing hyperbole turned me off, I admit, but the translation needs to be evaluated for what it is, not how it&#8217;s marketed.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1489</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1489</guid>
		<description>The marketing problem with saying that the ESV is &quot;a better RSV&quot; is that the RSV is the translation that the target audience for the ESV attacked and tore down (over one verse) for the greater part of a generation. They *have* to market the ESV as a *new* translation in order to avoid that historical baggage and the admission that &quot;the RSV was a good translation.&quot; 

The TNIV could use *any* amount of marketing support more than what it currently gets, but certainly a big-name endorsement along the lines of &quot;a revision of the NIV, but only better&quot; would help promote that translation.

What&#039;s been missed or underreported in the ESV/TNIV &quot;war&quot; is the impact that the ESV has had on NASB sales - since both represent a conservative evangelical response to the RSV. That&#039;s a whole other angle to this conversation: revision vs. response.

(For the record, neither the ESV or TNIV are at the top of the stack of translations that I regularly use.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The marketing problem with saying that the ESV is &#8220;a better RSV&#8221; is that the RSV is the translation that the target audience for the ESV attacked and tore down (over one verse) for the greater part of a generation. They *have* to market the ESV as a *new* translation in order to avoid that historical baggage and the admission that &#8220;the RSV was a good translation.&#8221; </p>
<p>The TNIV could use *any* amount of marketing support more than what it currently gets, but certainly a big-name endorsement along the lines of &#8220;a revision of the NIV, but only better&#8221; would help promote that translation.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s been missed or underreported in the ESV/TNIV &#8220;war&#8221; is the impact that the ESV has had on NASB sales &#8211; since both represent a conservative evangelical response to the RSV. That&#8217;s a whole other angle to this conversation: revision vs. response.</p>
<p>(For the record, neither the ESV or TNIV are at the top of the stack of translations that I regularly use.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Kercheville</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Kercheville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 11:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>El Shaddai Edwards- Â By the way, I think the TNIV could take your same suggestion. Proclaim that it is a revision of the NIV, but only better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>El Shaddai Edwards- Â By the way, I think the TNIV could take your same suggestion. Proclaim that it is a revision of the NIV, but only better.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Kercheville</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1487</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Kercheville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 11:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1487</guid>
		<description>ElShaddai Edwards - I agree that it would be better to be more forthright about what the ESV is, and proclaim it. It is the RSV, but even better!
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Craig - Yes, there are groups who hate the ESV. I would not call it a plot because that suggests conspiracy. But efforts have been made to discredit the ESV. The reason they hate the ESV is because apparently those who made the effort to create the ESV were the ones that tried to destroy the TNIV when it was produced. So there are many who love the TNIV and openly show hatred toward the ESV and vice versa. Some people simply cannot enjoy these translations. Since the ESV was produced out of response to the gender neutral revisions of the NIV (which is now the TNIV), some can&#039;t get past this history and refuse to try the ESV. Because of gender neutral language of the TNIV, some refuse to try the TNIV and have made efforts to discredit it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;As I said in my post, let&#039;s just be happy that we have many translations to work with in our studies. We may not like a particular translation, but let&#039;s not ignore it to our own detriment.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Dave - I do think people have forgotten that the RSV was a nice work of translation for its time. I am glad the NRSV and ESV exist with their various updates and revisions.&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ElShaddai Edwards &#8211; I agree that it would be better to be more forthright about what the ESV is, and proclaim it. It is the RSV, but even better!</p>
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<div>Craig &#8211; Yes, there are groups who hate the ESV. I would not call it a plot because that suggests conspiracy. But efforts have been made to discredit the ESV. The reason they hate the ESV is because apparently those who made the effort to create the ESV were the ones that tried to destroy the TNIV when it was produced. So there are many who love the TNIV and openly show hatred toward the ESV and vice versa. Some people simply cannot enjoy these translations. Since the ESV was produced out of response to the gender neutral revisions of the NIV (which is now the TNIV), some can&#8217;t get past this history and refuse to try the ESV. Because of gender neutral language of the TNIV, some refuse to try the TNIV and have made efforts to discredit it.</div>
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</div>
<div>As I said in my post, let&#8217;s just be happy that we have many translations to work with in our studies. We may not like a particular translation, but let&#8217;s not ignore it to our own detriment.</div>
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<div>Dave &#8211; I do think people have forgotten that the RSV was a nice work of translation for its time. I am glad the NRSV and ESV exist with their various updates and revisions.</div>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 04:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>I grew up with the RSV, and loved it. Â However, bible reading at family devotions meant using different versions, we&#039;d read a verse each and occasionally pipe up about how it was different in different translations. Â I have very fond memories of this.


When the NIV came out and my church switched I began using that translation almost exclusively. Â Lately, however, I&#039;ve been collecting different versions. Â One of my favorites is a NRSV Study Bible. Â The language reminds me of the RSV I knew and loved as a teenager. Â I also have a Berkley Version (I know nothing about the history of that version other than it was my grandmothers and it has really cool footnotes, although it&#039;s not technically a study Bible). Â It reads more like the KJV/ASV than the RSV, but I like it sometimes. Â  An unusual one is &quot;Da Jesus Book,&quot; a New Testament translated by Wycliffe Bible Translators in Hawaiian (Polynesian) Pidgin. Â That&#039;s fun to read. Â The disciples are referred to as &quot;Jesus&#039; guys.&quot; Â </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up with the RSV, and loved it. Â However, bible reading at family devotions meant using different versions, we&#8217;d read a verse each and occasionally pipe up about how it was different in different translations. Â I have very fond memories of this.</p>
<p>When the NIV came out and my church switched I began using that translation almost exclusively. Â Lately, however, I&#8217;ve been collecting different versions. Â One of my favorites is a NRSV Study Bible. Â The language reminds me of the RSV I knew and loved as a teenager. Â I also have a Berkley Version (I know nothing about the history of that version other than it was my grandmothers and it has really cool footnotes, although it&#8217;s not technically a study Bible). Â It reads more like the KJV/ASV than the RSV, but I like it sometimes. Â  An unusual one is &#8220;Da Jesus Book,&#8221; a New Testament translated by Wycliffe Bible Translators in Hawaiian (Polynesian) Pidgin. Â That&#8217;s fun to read. Â The disciples are referred to as &#8220;Jesus&#8217; guys.&#8221; Â </p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 02:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>&quot;But those who are trying to destroyed the ESV&quot;

Do you really think there&#039;s a plot afoot?

:-}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But those who are trying to destroyed the ESV&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you really think there&#8217;s a plot afoot?</p>
<p>:-}</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/revised-translations-warmed-up-leftovers/comment-page-1/#comment-1482</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 23:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1248#comment-1482</guid>
		<description>Good post - thanks for sharing the thoughts! I would add the NEB to your list of significant translations that are not revisions. It too was revised (REB), but the original is still popular in some quarters.

I think much of the criticism of the ESV as a revision has been with regards to its marketing - the sales message that &quot;the ESV is the most important translation of our generation&quot; rings a bit hollow when ~90% of the text is unchanged from the RSV. I would prefer that they gave credit where credit is due, as you have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post &#8211; thanks for sharing the thoughts! I would add the NEB to your list of significant translations that are not revisions. It too was revised (REB), but the original is still popular in some quarters.</p>
<p>I think much of the criticism of the ESV as a revision has been with regards to its marketing &#8211; the sales message that &#8220;the ESV is the most important translation of our generation&#8221; rings a bit hollow when ~90% of the text is unchanged from the RSV. I would prefer that they gave credit where credit is due, as you have done.</p>
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