Comments on: The Gift and the Promise (3) http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/the-gift-and-the-promise-3/ A Voice of Reason for the 21st Century Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:40:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Vandagriff http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/the-gift-and-the-promise-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1465 Richard Vandagriff Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:15:47 +0000 http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1235#comment-1465 1) At the ascension Christ was speaking to the then eleven apostles, not to all Christians. There is no such thing as a personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit except as we have the word of God dwellling within us. The scriptures do not teach what you suggest. The Holy Spirit is in heaven with God and Christ, all of them have been there a long time - he is not now on earth. It is wrong to take what was said to hand chosen ambassadors and open it up to everyone. Context is everything. The Spirit was poured out on all flesh in that entrance to the Kingdom was opened to the Jew first and later also to the non-Jew. Salvation had been brought down. 2) I agree. And it was a progression, however, the first listed occurence of the gospel being carried to the Gentiles is found in Acts 10 and 11. Hence the same sign as on Pentecost. 3) The last was also said directly to the twelve - it does not publish out to everyone. No one is out there speaking in Swahili unless they have been trained in it, anymore than anyone is out there raising the dead. Period. Thanks for the thoughts. 1) At the ascension Christ was speaking to the then eleven apostles, not to all Christians. There is no such thing as a personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit except as we have the word of God dwellling within us. The scriptures do not teach what you suggest. The Holy Spirit is in heaven with God and Christ, all of them have been there a long time – he is not now on earth. It is wrong to take what was said to hand chosen ambassadors and open it up to everyone. Context is everything. The Spirit was poured out on all flesh in that entrance to the Kingdom was opened to the Jew first and later also to the non-Jew. Salvation had been brought down.
2) I agree. And it was a progression, however, the first listed occurence of the gospel being carried to the Gentiles is found in Acts 10 and 11. Hence the same sign as on Pentecost.
3) The last was also said directly to the twelve – it does not publish out to everyone. No one is out there speaking in Swahili unless they have been trained in it, anymore than anyone is out there raising the dead. Period.

Thanks for the thoughts.

]]> By: Jeff O http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/the-gift-and-the-promise-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1464 Jeff O Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:20:11 +0000 http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1235#comment-1464 The Ascension Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” [Here we can see that once the Spirit fell, they would be witnesses to the ends of the Earth,as you said in your post... the method by which the Spirit would be outpoured on all flesh is creating disciples by spreading the Gospel... all believers have the Spirit in them. The receiving of power at Jerusalem and the witnessing to all people in the Earth (all flesh) are two completely different things. Tongues as THE evidence of having the Spirit indwelling in you is distanced in this text even before it happened.] --------------- Acts 13: 44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” [The progression of how the Spirit would be poured out upon all flesh: the Gospel is going to the Gentiles!] -------------- Mark 16: The Great Commission 14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” 19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs. [tongues is a sign just as much as snakes not killing you (literal or not) and healing - certainly no one would demand that an ill person become completely well as evidence that they believe in the Messiah ...unless you are some Word of Faith nutter, perhaps I came out of a group that demanded that as evidence of Salvation. Only God knows the heart.. man sees the outside, so no external "evidence" is proof someone is saved or not. Satan has counterfeits to dupe the unwise, anyway. Whatever one believes the significance of tongues to be, it is a gift, not the evidence of salvation. Of that I am completely convinced.] The Ascension

Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

[Here we can see that once the Spirit fell, they would be witnesses to the ends of the Earth,as you said in your post... the method by which the Spirit would be outpoured on all flesh is creating disciples by spreading the Gospel... all believers have the Spirit in them. The receiving of power at Jerusalem and the witnessing to all people in the Earth (all flesh) are two completely different things. Tongues as THE evidence of having the Spirit indwelling in you is distanced in this text even before it happened.]

—————

Acts 13: 44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

[The progression of how the Spirit would be poured out upon all flesh: the Gospel is going to the Gentiles!]
————–

Mark 16: The Great Commission

14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

[tongues is a sign just as much as snakes not killing you (literal or not) and healing - certainly no one would demand that an ill person become completely well as evidence that they believe in the Messiah ...unless you are some Word of Faith nutter, perhaps

I came out of a group that demanded that as evidence of Salvation. Only God knows the heart.. man sees the outside, so no external "evidence" is proof someone is saved or not. Satan has counterfeits to dupe the unwise, anyway. Whatever one believes the significance of tongues to be, it is a gift, not the evidence of salvation. Of that I am completely convinced.]

]]> By: Richard http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/the-gift-and-the-promise-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1462 Richard Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:45:36 +0000 http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/?p=1235#comment-1462 I have Joppa on the brain and inadvertently inserted it where Caesarea should appear - it has been corrected. I have Joppa on the brain and inadvertently inserted it where Caesarea should appear – it has been corrected.

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